Camerado Movie and Media Production

DavidM_190568 · #2 12-15-2007, 07:51 AM

Obviously, there's no question that the festival screwed up, based on what you're telling us. It sounds as though you clearly told them that they didn't have permission to show your film, so it's hard to see how they could justify it (regardless of an actor submitting it). On a practical level, though, I suspect you would find it impossible to show that you suffered any damages because of what they did. Without being able to show that you've suffered specific damage (i.e., lost money in some way), I don't think you have a legal claim that is worth pursuing. Yes, you could prove copyright infringement, but it wouldn't be worth it, since damages would be zero.

I'm not an attorney, so you might get different advice from an attorney. For practical purposes, though, I would simply let it go as a bad experience and move on. You're not going to be able to change what happened. You're not going to recover damages (since there aren't any). So why waste your time pursuing it? The best you can do is let other people (here and elsewhere) know about your bad experience with this festival. Just tell us which festival it was so people can decide for themselves if this incident is enough to keep people from doing business with the festival. (If the festival wants to tell its side of the story, that would be good, too.)

J'aimeeS_237892 · #3 12-15-2007, 08:13 AM

I agree with David, although they need to know they stuffed up - big time.

If they didn't screen the final cut then surely that means your premiere status is still intact? I'd see it that way.

On the topic of posters, if we believed we had the rights to screen a film we very often make one off posters promoting that particular film (& screening) so we can market it to a target audience (whale films at the environment centre etc). Maybe that's the kind of poster your friend saw?

Anyway all that aside it sucks - bigtime. You deserved to have your first screening they way you wanted it and the fact that you tried to make contact and got no-where only makes that festival's mess-up worse. I think you should name them, enough festivals have their flaws exposed here on the boards, why protect these guys - and filmmakers have a right to know which festivals won't make the effort to answer an important email.

JosephK_270598 · #4 12-15-2007, 08:17 AM

They must have liked your film to screen it. Tell them your goals and see if they will work with you in that regard.

If the relationships are not spoiled, why not turn this into a positive experience and ask them to help you arrange and co-host a future screening (to make up for the opportunity you missed), and to provide an invitation list from their database (in addition to your own.)

You might even consider making it a charity event and ask for a small donation from attendees.

You can arrange your desired pitching sessions around the screening or in another location.

If the festival is connected to your local community you want them to be your allies. They probably have resources in the area, or can help you more easily connect to a general audience beyond the specific investors you might already know.

SteveG_169708 · #5 12-15-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonR_30743

Items I've thought about as potential "payback" might be: 2) usuable PR quote from the fest

"We liked his film so much, we screened the rough cut illegally!"
~ Mysterioso Film Festival

On the serious side, I was pretty much thinking what David assessed while I was reading your story - you're in the right, but it would be hard to prove or receive compensation for damages. Maybe if you could show a pattern of abuse and how numerous film deals have been garnered by finished films at this festival, then you could state a claim that the rough cut screening hurt your career possibilities, or something. But that's probably a tough one to prove.

If you're worried about loss of premiere status in the U.S., I think you could safely hold on to it by saying that was a works-in-progress screening.

Did they get the poster from the actor, or design it themselves? I don't know the actor who approached the festival, but is it possible he represented himself as they say? Is he given to big, ambitious gestures? He may have felt he was doing you a favor by pushing the film, he may feel a propriety right to it (he's in it, which is enough for most actors to call it 'their' film)...

It may be a case of misguided or overly enthusiastic actions on the part of one of your cast members, rather than the fest being too devious.

The emails asking them not to screen it are the worst part about the story, otherwise, I'd be tempted to say, "Hey, most people are thrilled to get into festivals." But I know that's no consolation when you feel ripped off or betrayed, and I don't want to belittle your degree of upset. You have every right to be angry for a while, but in the grand scheme of things, you might benefit more from treating it as a simple misunderstanding (whether it was or not), and trying to garner some support from the festival.

Sorry to hear about your situation. On the bright side, they liked the rough cut enough to screen it as part of their festival, so the finished version must be great.

Good luck in the future - hope you're able to get your funding and keep making films.

gelder

P.S. I posted this before seeing J'aimee or Joseph's post on the subjects. I take too much time to type, I guess.

LouisP_193517 · #6 12-15-2007, 05:54 PM

I had a similar experience. I submitted a film to a fest and when I wasn't selected, called for feedback. I was told that they liked my film and it was too bad it had already screened and was hence, "not eligible." After doing a little digging, I found that one of the actors, who was a volunteer at the fest, had arranged for a screening prior to the fest without telling me.

Them's the breaks.

Lou

JasonR_30743 · #7 12-16-2007, 04:15 AM

Yea, it is insightful to hear these perspectives; I'm aware of the realities of whatever legal angles there may be, which is why I want to stay "off that grid" unless there is a compelling reason for a lot of reasons you all have already mentioned.

Also: aside from being "right", it seems like a lot of operations folks inside festivals (from my own experience as well) seem to be somehow immune from any sense of responsibility when it comes to something like this--my position has always been that it's a 50-50 arrangement overall: the fest needs strong content, and the filmmakers need fests.

But the unfortunate REALITY is that even in a situation like this, the filmmaker can somehow end up as the bad guy / girl for even bringing this up, for calling a fest on something improper...in the foggy world of festival operations, basic facts get lost and suddenly the filmmaker who had his/her work shown in an improper fashion is labelled as a troublemaker, or "ungrateful".

Which is why I appreciate the WAB feedback on this; I do want to handle this in a constructive, reasonable way.

Along the lines of having the festival itself [it's the Santa Fe Film Festival, by the way] weigh in, I figure I'll do this: I'll wait for them to get back to me (so far I've been trying to contact them by phone, on my own dime, from Asia, and via many emails to resolve this--basically a completely one-sided communcation from me, though I'm the one who got the short end of the stick)

...and when they do get back to me, as they've assured me they would, I'll let them know this discussion is ongoing on these boards and that they may want to give their perspective so as not to unfairly damage their reputation.

Thanks for the info so far,

JR

Damien P_283643 · #8 12-16-2007, 10:58 PM

Yes I have had a similar experience to this also! not as relentless though.
I submitted a film of mine to a online streaming provider, (as they got good coverage on there page and it seemed like a good idea). and about 2 months later a got an e-mail from a festival called West Garth Film Fest, saying that my film had been rejected, even without my submiting it.
Anyhow it turned out that one of the providers I submited it to, submited it to the festival without piror permission..

But when your a indie film maker, theres not really much you can do except put it down to a bad experience.

Damo

NoahK_170061 · #9 12-17-2007, 05:15 PM

Jason-

Wow that's a really bad experience. Shame on the actor for letting things go so far without your authorization. Unfortunately I can see the festival's position on this one. There's no festival that has the resources to research every festival submission they receive to make sure it's coming from someone actually authorized to rep it. This is why I gave out exactly zero copies of my movie to anyone before I started submitting it.

In this case, I think the festival owes you a few things. Number one an apology for not connecting your communications about not showing the film with the actual scheduling of the film at the festival. Number two to change their website to clearly state that your film was not a premiere but a work in progress so that you don't lose your premiere status. Although ultimately this is not as horrible as it sounds because you are going to lose it eventually anyway and you can still have a long festival run after the premiere at many festivals without premiere requirements.

As for further legal actions I would say you could take the actor himself to court for copyright violation but I would imagine you'd have a hard time proving any actual damages. Not to mention a good lawyer could probably take your communications with the actor and construe them in such a way to show the actor had a reasonable cause to think he was authorized to submit the film. In other words I think you'll basically just ending up wasting a lot of time and legal fees with nothing gained.

The good news is that a festival liked your film enough to screen it. So now maybe it's time to keep submitting it elsewhere and get on with your career.

-Noah

Shannonn K_175688 · #10 12-17-2007, 05:41 PM

Sorry to hear this story Jason R.

And ditto to what Noah said. Shame on the actor-

Unless you gave this actor a producer credit, there should have been no reason for the festival to believe the actor was acting as an agent of the film (read: able to make deals, garner screenings, talk to distributors, etc.)

I work around this sort of thing happening by making it a firm policy to watermark all credit copies handed out to crew and cast, so no one has a 'screenable' copy, to act on anyone's behalf at festivals, markets and/or with distributors-

In the meantime work on the film festival to get your premiere status refreshed...

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